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Re: [K12OSN] Release cycle too fast



I might decide to try out Debian exactly because of
the long release cycle.  I maintain computers for a
lot of family members who have very basic needs.

Thanks to all for answering so many of my questions on
this topic.

-Rob

--- Jim McQuillan <jam mcquil com> wrote:

> Rob,
> 
> I really can't answer about Fedora, because I don't
> use it.  But I know
> you can do that with Debian.  Unfortunately, the
> release cycle for
> debian is so long :(
> 
> Jim McQuillan
> jam Ltsp org
> 
> 
> On Fri, 1 Apr 2005, Rob Owens wrote:
> 
> > Jim,
> >
> > Just to be clear, are you saying that I can apt or
> yum
> > from one release version and end up with the
> latest
> > release version?  for example, using yum to
> upgrade
> > from FC2 to FC3.
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> > --- Jim McQuillan <jam mcquil com> wrote:
> >
> > > Rob,
> > >
> > > What you've described below is exactly how apt
> works
> > > with debian.
> > >
> > > and I think that's how yum works on fedora.
> > >
> > > Jim McQuillan
> > > jam Ltsp org
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 1 Apr 2005, Rob Owens wrote:
> > >
> > > > I realize that I'm asking for a lot, and I
> don't
> > > want
> > > > it interpreted as me being ungrateful.  I'm
> just
> > > > trying to give input from the point of view of
> > > > somebody who is primarily a user, and not an
> > > > administrator.
> > > >
> > > > I realize that I can manually install
> packages,
> > > and
> > > > even source if I need to.  I've done it
> before,
> > > but
> > > > one of the really great things about linux is
> the
> > > > automatic dependency-checking installers like
> apt,
> > > > yum, urpmi (for Mandrake).  But keeping an old
> > > system
> > > > up to date without that would mean being on an
> > > email
> > > > list for every application that the old system
> > > runs so
> > > > I could keep informed of security updates.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the explanation of applications,
> > > libraries,
> > > > etc.  I'm still a bit confused about it.  I
> don't
> > > > understand why this situation is not possible:
> > > I'm
> > > > running FC1.  Application "xyz" needs
> updating,
> > > but no
> > > > packages are available because FC1 is
> unsupported.
> > > > yum xyz2 to get the updated package from the
> FC2
> > > > repository.  But xyz2 requires abc version 2. 
> My
> > > > system has abc version 1.  yum uninstalls
> xyz1,
> > > > uninstalls abc version 1, installs abc version
> 2,
> > > and
> > > > installs xyz.  Of course, it also has to take
> into
> > > > account what else depends on abc version 1 and
> > > upgrade
> > > > that to a version that can use abc version 2. 
> It
> > > gets
> > > > complicated, but isn't that what these
> packaging
> > > > systems are supposed to do?  Conceivably, with
> > > enough
> > > > updates, my FC1 system could become FC2.  At
> least
> > > > that's the way it seems to me, so tell me why
> I'm
> > > > wrong.  (I'm sure I am, otherwise we'd already
> be
> > > > doing it that way).
> > > >
> > > > -Rob
> > > >
> > > > --- Petre Scheie <petre maltzen net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > When you consider that "an application"
> isn't
> > > really
> > > > > a single entity but rather  a
> > > > > collection of files--the main executables,
> > > myriad
> > > > > support libraries, drivers,
> > > > > etc.--updating even just one application
> isn't
> > > > > updating just one thing.  And very often,
> > > > > those support libraries and drivers are used
> by
> > > more
> > > > > than one application--that's the
> > > > > point of an operating system.  So, a problem
> is
> > > > > found in one of the libraries, and a new
> > > > > version is created that fixes the problem. 
> But
> > > that
> > > > > change may mean that some
> > > > > applications have to also be changed to work
> > > with
> > > > > the new library.  Most distros come
> > > > > with more than 2000 applications, many
> > > > > inter-related. And many/most of those
> > > > > applications are being further developed. In
> > > some
> > > > > ways, it's amazing they don't release
> > > > > new versions more often than they do.
> > > > >
> > > > > Having said that, you don't need to upgrade
> the
> > > > > whole OS just to keep, for example, SSH
> > > > > current.  You DO have to step outside the
> > > automated
> > > > > tools the Distro vendor provides,
> > > > > and go to installing the packages manually,
> but
> > > on a
> > > > > 'older' system that is relatively
> > > > > static--that is, you're not adding
> additional
> > > > > functionality--that's not that hard.  I
> > > > > have some RH 8 boxes in which we just
> upgrade
> > > the
> > > > > SSH package as necessary.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you want to buy 'tires' for your
> > > > > more-than-two-year-old system, and 'buy' is
> the
> > > key
> > > > > word here, check out progeny.com.  For $60
> per
> > > year
> > > > > per box, they will provide patches
> > > > > for your Red Hat 7.2, 7.3, 8.0, systems, and
> > > other
> > > > > custom platforms for a fee.  For a
> > > > > business, it's a pretty good deal.  If you
> want
> > > FREE
> > > > > updates you have to go where free
> > > > > stuff is available, and that means things
> like
> > > > > Fedora.  Perhaps linux usage will some
> > > > > day reach a critical mass such that there
> will
> > > be
> > > > > enough people involved that there will
> > > > > be some interested in continually
> maintaining
> > > older
> > > > > distributions for free.  But I
> > > > > suspect that day is a ways off yet.
> > > > >
> > > > > Petre
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
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> second
> > > dates.
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> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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