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Re: [libvirt] Notes from the KVM Forum relevant to libvirt



On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Daniel P. Berrange
<berrange redhat com> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 10:10:27AM +0100, Stefan Hajnoczi wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 3:46 PM, Daniel P. Berrange <berrange redhat com> wrote:
>> > On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 03:20:57PM +0100, Stefan Hajnoczi wrote:
>> >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Daniel P. Berrange <berrange redhat com> wrote:
>> >> > On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 04:24:46PM +0100, Stefan Hajnoczi wrote:
>> >> >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Daniel P. Berrange
>> >> >> <berrange redhat com> wrote:
>> >> >> > I was at the KVM Forum / LinuxCon last week and there were many
>> >> >> > interesting things discussed which are relevant to ongoing libvirt
>> >> >> > development. Here was the list that caught my attention. If I have
>> >> >> > missed any, fill in the gaps....
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >  - Sandbox/container KVM.  The Solaris port of KVM puts QEMU inside
>> >> >> >   a zone so that an exploit of QEMU can't escape into the full OS.
>> >> >> >   Containers are Linux's parallel of Zones, and while not nearly as
>> >> >> >   secure yet, it would still be worth using more containers support
>> >> >> >   to confine QEMU.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Can you elaborate on why Linux containers are "not nearly as secure"
>> >> >> [as Solaris Zones]?
>> >> >
>> >> > Mostly because the Linux namespace functionality is far from complete,
>> >> > notably lacking proper UID/GID/capability separation, and UID/GID
>> >> > virtualization wrt filesystems. The longer answer is here:
>> >> >
>> >> >   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserNamespace
>> >> >
>> >> > So at this time you can't build a secure container on Linux, relying
>> >> > just on DAC alone. You have to add in a MAC layer ontop of the container
>> >> > to get full security benefits, which obviously defeats the point of
>> >> > using the container as a backup for failure in the MAC layer.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks, that is interesting.  I still don't understand why that is a
>> >> problem.  Linux containers (lxc) uses a different pid namespace (no
>> >> ptrace worries), file system root (restricted to a subdirectory tree),
>> >> forbids most device nodes, etc.  Why does the user namespace matter
>> >> for security in this case?
>> >
>> > A number of reasons really...
>> >
>> > If user ID '0' on the host starts a container, and a process inside
>> > the container does 'setuid(500)', then any user outside the container
>> > with UID 500 will be able to kill that process. Only user ID '0' should
>> > have been allowed todo that.
>> >
>> > It will also let non-root user IDs on the host OS, start containers
>> > and have root uid=0 inside the container.
>> >
>> > Finally, any files created inside the container with, say, uid 500
>> > will be accessible by any other process with UID 500, in either the
>> > host or any other container
>>
>> These points mean that the host can peek inside containers and has
>> access to their processes/files.  But from the point of a libvirt
>> running inside a container there is no security problem.
>>
>> This is kind of like saying that root on the host can modify KVM guest
>> disk images.  That is true but I don't see it as a security problem
>> because the root on the host is the trusted part of the system.
>>
>> >> I think it matters when giving multiple containers access to the same
>> >> file system.  Is that what you'd like to do for libvirt?
>> >
>> > Each container would have to share a (readonly) view onto the host
>> > filesystem so it can see the QEMU emulator install / libraries. There
>> > would also have to be some writable areas per QEMU container.  QEMU
>> > inside the container would be set to run as some non-root UID (from
>> > the container's POV). So both problem 1 & 3 above would impact the
>> > security of this confinement.
>>
>> But is there a way to escape confinement?  If not, then this is secure.
>
> The filesystem UID/GID ownership is the most likely way you can escape
> the confinement. You would have to be very careful to ensure that each
> container's view of the filesystem did not include any directories
> with files that are assigned to another container, since the UID
> separation would not prevent access to another container's resources.
>
> This is rather tedious but could be just about doable, but it gets
> harder when you throw in things like sysfs and PCI device assignment.
> eg a guest with PCI device assigned gets given ownership of the files
> in /sys/bus/pci/devices/0000:00:XX:XX/ and since there is no UID
> namespacing, this will be accessible to any other container with the
> same UID. To hack around this when starting up a container you would
> probably have to bind mount a empty tmpfs over the top of all the
> PCI device paths you wanted to block in sysfs.

Ah, I hadn't thought of /sys/bus/pci or /sys/bus/usb!

Thanks for the explanation and it does seem like the design would get messy.

Stefan


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