[PatternFly] Browser support update

Wed May 23 13:58:45 UTC 2018

On 23 May 2018 at 15:23, Greg Sheremeta <gshereme at redhat.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 2:38 AM, Stian Thorgersen <sthorger at redhat.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 22 May 2018 at 22:23, Andres Galante <agalante at redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Leslie has been meeting with different team to take this decisions based
>>> on their requirements and roadmaps. She is on vacation this week so we can
>>> probably continue this discussing next week.
>>>
>>
>> I believe we're different as we provide pages exposed directly to
>> end-users, not only to admins/developers. Look at Angular for example they
>> still support IE9-11.
>>
>> +1 Let's continue the discussion next week
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Here is my reasoning:
>>>
>>> IE11 is a burden, not only because we can't use css variables and grid
>>> among other modern CSS features but also because it increases the time of
>>> development to write fallbacks and testing and it makes the codebase harder
>>> to maintain.
>>>
>>> Patternfly next beta will out during the next 6 month-ish and a stable
>>> version probably by the end of the year or beginning of the next. By the
>>> time we have a stable version and projects start adopting it, it's a safe
>>> assumption that IE11 will be irrelevant.
>>>
>>
>> I'm not sure when IE11 will be irrelevant. Remember how long IE6 stuck
>> around after it was EOL? It was crazy. We even had a visit from IE6 (and
>> IE5) on keycloak.org this year.
>>
>
> "Hi kind person! Looks like you are using Bad Technology. Let us help you
> ... install this nice Firefox over here."
>

lol - we can just make a lil' javascript alert for those using IE11. I'd go
for Chrome though ;)

>
> /problem
>
> Greg
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Does it make sense?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 5:01 PM, Stan Silvert <ssilvert at redhat.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Maybe we can load a polyfill when we detect IE11?
>>>>
>>>> Would this work for all the new features you plan to use Andres?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/22/2018 3:31 PM, Stian Thorgersen wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On keycloak.org we have ~5% on IE11 this year. Of IE users 95% of our
>>>> users are on IE11.
>>>>
>>>> Looking at https://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php there's 2.81% for
>>>> IE11. On http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/wo
>>>> rldwide it says 7.17%, which I assume is mostly IE11. They don't give
>>>> details on individual versions as far as I can see.
>>>>
>>>> From my understanding there's still a lot of folks on Windows XP in the
>>>> world and a good proportion has not updated to Edge. I remember how long it
>>>> took to get rid of IE6.
>>>>
>>>> For RH-SSO and Keycloak we have login pages as well as the account
>>>> management console that both should be available to most users. Available
>>>> is subjective of course, but if there's CSS variables used which is not
>>>> supported at all on IE11 I would assume it would look very bad on IE11?
>>>>
>>>> On 22 May 2018 at 21:05, Andres Galante <agalante at redhat.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Stian,
>>>>>
>>>>> How much of that IE traffic is IE11?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Stian Thorgersen <sthorger at redhat.com
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> According to http://gs.statcounter.com/b
>>>>>> rowser-market-share/desktop/worldwide
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IE11 is still more popular than Edge.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I get the same numbers from keycloak.org.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 22 May 2018 at 20:07, Stian Thorgersen <sthorger at redhat.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is the world really ready to move on from IE11? For admin facing
>>>>>>> apps I don't see it as a problem, but what about end-user facing apps?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 18 May 2018 at 10:53, Guillaume Vincent <gvincent at redhat.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> this is a good news, thank you patternfly !
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 1:22 PM, Andres Galante <
>>>>>>>> agalante at redhat.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Stan,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes! it means we'll go back to use CSS variables following the
>>>>>>>>> same 2 tier variable system
>>>>>>>>> <https://css-tricks.com/theming-with-variables-globals-and-locals/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We'll also be able to use CSS grids to build layouts :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 8:14 AM, Stan Silvert <ssilvert at redhat.com
>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm quite happy to ditch IE11.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Does that mean PatternFly Next will use CSS variables instead of
>>>>>>>>>> preprocessor variables?  Eliminating the preprocessor will make me double
>>>>>>>>>> happy!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For our app we want to allow an administrator to do simple theme
>>>>>>>>>> changes from the admin console.  This gets really easy to implement if the
>>>>>>>>>> app doesn't need preprocessing.  If we have to use a preprocessor then it
>>>>>>>>>> becomes extremely complicated.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Stan
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/16/2018 4:55 PM, Leslie Hinson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hey Fliers
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> At the last PatternFly Next update, the topic of IE11 browser
>>>>>>>>>> support came up. Specifically, the question on whether or not we needed to
>>>>>>>>>> support it moving forward.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As a result, we wanted to follow up to ensure we understood
>>>>>>>>>> PatternFly users' browser support roadmap. From what we've been able to
>>>>>>>>>> gather, we learned that the majority of PatternFly users that are
>>>>>>>>>> interested in migrating to PatternFly-Next are comfortable proceeding
>>>>>>>>>> without IE11 support moving forward. We will continue to have PF3 for any
>>>>>>>>>> users that still require that level of support, however we don't believe
>>>>>>>>>> that IE11 support is worth the cost for this next major version.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks to everyone that raised this concern as well as those that
>>>>>>>>>> provided input to help us make this decision.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Leslie Hinson
>>>>>>>>>> PatternFly Lead, UXD
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> PatternFly mailing listPatternFly at redhat.comhttps://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> PatternFly mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> PatternFly at redhat.com
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> PatternFly mailing list
>>>>>>>>> PatternFly at redhat.com
>>>>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Guillaume  Vincent
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Senior FrontEnd Engineer
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> gvincent at redhat.com
>>>>>>>> <https://red.ht/sig>
>>>>>>>> TRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED. <https://redhat.com/trusted>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> GREG SHEREMETA
>
> SENIOR SOFTWARE ENGINEER - TEAM LEAD - RHV UX
>
> Red Hat NA
>
> <https://www.redhat.com/>
>
> gshereme at redhat.com    IRC: gshereme
> <https://red.ht/sig>
>
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