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Re: [Pulp-list] How about we just merge these core features into Cobbler?



Máirín Duffy wrote:
Michael DeHaan wrote:


Maybe it would help to analogize what I mean: if I just want to make a peanut butter sandwich, I don't need to be offered an apron, french chopping knife, a 36-inch long cutting board, and a food processor to do so. I mean, maybe the food processor would be handy if I wanted to shell and crush the peanuts and make freshly made peanut butter for my sandwich, but that's definitely a path less travelled :) But if I'm Martha Stewart making a Thanksgiving feast, then at least some of those tools probably are absolutely essential. Is the type of person who makes PB&J and mac&cheese going to be able to do so with a Martha Stewart kitchen (TM)? Yeh, but it might be a lot more confusing/complicated for them ("which knife do i use?" "what does this tool do?") And it's not a simple vs complex dichotomy, add a cafeteria chef into the mix who cooks for 500 people a day, and he'll have a third separate workflow from myself and Martha and maybe needs even more different tools.

I generally prefer to make tools that allow people to define their own workflows, very much in the LEGO (TM) building block vein. If you don't want to use the green blocks, it's okay :)

I think that's a good philosophy, but I think it is also good to provide a 'best practices' or maybe a better term would be 'reference implementation' of putting those lego blocks together? Just given a bucket of legos, it's hard to image what it possible without the little catalog that comes with it right? :) And they are just as fun (although a different kind of fun) to build based off of the instruction booklet than to build from your own head. It certainly takes a lot more time and work to do the latter.

I think we are stuck in metaphor land :)

I also think we provide those in the form of documentation pretty well already.

Anyhow, I see the UI/workflow pulp thing I'm talking about as being sort of what you get if you follow the lego leaflet instructions maybe...?

Either way I don't see what is there as being that complex, and I'm open to making them simpler however we can.

I would think adding more repo functionality to it, though, it would grow more complex than what is there in it right now. I don't know for sure though, but looking at spacewalk's complexity it seems a reasonable guess.

So I was thinking that maybe pulp could be a UI geared to the current Satellite build-your-distro-push-it-out-to-systems-and-update-your-distro-and-update-those-systems workflow that Satellite (and Spacewalk :) ) users go through today. This isn't to say there aren't other workflows that would use either/or or both the repo management bits and cobbler, but pulp would be an interface specifically geared towards the common Satellite/Spacewalk workflow we know so well from working with and going out and interviewing customers of the Satellite product.

If it's geared to that workflow, why is it not part of Spacewalk? I think that package management (RPMs) is the core use of Spacewalk today ... with the other features as being very useful but kind of a "bonus". So maybe it could be just done as upgrades to that project if it's more about that workflow?

Well, I do think there was some thought to it eventually replacing Spacewalk. I am not sure if a 'clean slate' is needed there or not. If cobbler is getting integrated into spacewalk, does that make spacewalk the horse that ate the dog (cobbler) that ate the cat (pulp?) that ate the mouse (my sanity?)

Not sure, but perhaps there is a hole in my bucket.

Is that the bucket the cow kicked after it ate the horse? :)


Either way, cobbler's repo stuff could remain the backend. I am less interested in what happens with the Web details (they are very important, don't get me wrong), but am mainly interested in seeing we leverage available bits on the backend.

Seems reasonable :)

If Pulp would want to be a WebUI that supported the Cobbler API, maybe that does make sense, but seeing the linkage that exists today where we can associate profiles with repos in Cobbler, I like them being together.

I'm not quite following this - you're saying you'd like pulp and cobbler to be together, or you'd like the webui to be together with cobbler?

I think I'm saying I'd like everything in Pulp to be added to Cobbler as cobbler enhancements, just because cobbler's core (not so much the webapp) already has what it takes to do most of the repo management, the rest is extensible, and it integrates at API level with provisioning already.

Okay, I understand now, although I'm still not sure I agree or disagree fwiw.

Perhaps the new webapp could have different perspectives for repos versus installation, maybe that's a good solution?

Yeh, but I think where you say "perspective" I'm thinking different UI / different workflow. Although then they could be tied together in different tabs and look the same so they could "look" like perspectives - but essentially they would be different UIs developed as such.

Maybe create some mockups to see what this might look like?


~m


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