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Re: Red Hat - Sun Now Java buddies

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 18:37:52 -0500
Sam Varshavchik <mrsam courier-mta com> wrote:

> Stijn Hoop writes:
> > On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 13:23:56 -0500
> > "Kelly Miller" <lightsolphoenix gmail com> wrote:
> > 
> >> > * inserting Microsoft IP into the community and getting them to
> >> > like it
> >> > * crushing Java
> >> > * crushing Flash
> >> > * crushing standard Python
> >> 
> >> And Ruby, as well as attempting to hand Microsoft the keys to the
> >> Gnome project...
> > 
> > Geez, cut down on the FUD people. It's another programming language,
> No, it's not just another programming language. It is a
> patent-encumbered programming language whose direction is steered and
> controlled by a convicted monopolist, whose declared, unquestioned,
> and ultimate goal is to destroy Linux.

There are parts of .NET controlled by Microsoft patents, yes. So if you
don't have a patent license in those parts of the world that need it,
or aren't excempt by way of the Novell deal, by all means go ahead and
don't use Mono. But if you do have no such concerns, it's a "free
software" choice that actually makes it pretty easy for specific
business cases to run on Linux, instead of that other OS.

Note that I specifically did not say that Mono should become the default
language of choice in Fedora, or anything like that. But making it look
like Microsoft is single handedly responsible for creating Mono and
making applications in it to run on Linux is simply not telling the

The decision to let Mono-based apps in Fedora was made in part because
of the presence of the Open Invention Network, a pool of patents that
RedHat, Novell and others can use to defend themselves from that
convicted monopolist. At the very least it was a well thought out
decision where the decision makers knew perfectly well what said
monopolist was up to -- and I prefer to trust them in that.

> > If you don't like mono, don't use it.
> True. Unfortunately a lot of Mono crap gets shoved into a typical
> Fedora install. Fortunately, it's still fairly easy to flush it out.

I'm curious as to what software in Fedora 8 depends on Mono, in the
standard Office/Desktop installation. Can I look that up somewhere?
My guess is Beagle and Tomboy, maybe F-Spot?

So to all the people that hate mono so much, here's your chance to do
something about it. Vote to make Tracker the default desktop search in
Fedora 9. Write a "replacement" Tomboy app in _real_ Python, make it
even better than the original, and get that in Fedora 9. That sort of
thing is a lot more constructive then just loudmouthing possible patent
litigations and IP-inserting evil companies.

> >                                        It's there because there was
> > a demand for it, whether *you* like it or not.
> There's also a lot of demand for MP3 software as well, yet there's no
> MP3 support in Fedora, nor there should be. Just because there may or
> may not be demand for Mono (I do not necessarily agree that there are
> really a lot of people craving for all that bloat) it does not mean
> that it should be a part of Fedora.

I do agree with the fact that demand alone is not enough to get
software in Fedora. But see above for the reasons that Mono was
accepted in the repository.

> >                                               It's not harming you
> > or Fedora in any way.
> No, not quite. The Fedora install on my laptop was suffering greatly,
> until I nuked Beagle and the rest of the Mono-related software. Then,
> I could actually use it, as intended.

You can't blame that on Mono, just as you can't blame the numerous
wakeups still present in lots of open source software, on the kernel.


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